Selected Laws

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interview with Adrian Dayton , author of “Marketing strategy and the law implemented ‘blog on. Based in Amherst, NY He can be reached at eight hundred and first 414th 7675 and atdayton @ gmail. com.

Larry Bodine , Esq. Glen Ellyn (Chicago) IL, is a business developer with 18 years experience helping to attract and keep more customers exclusive law firms. He conducts business development training through Apollo Business Development. He can be reached at 630th 942nd 0977 and LBodine @ LawMarketing. com.

Adrian Dayton: I understand you just returned from a business development training with a law firm. Before training, most likely you have to do some type of evaluation. They evaluate the company marketing plan. What kind of questions you ask in the evaluation of their plan?

Larry Bodine: Usually I am asked if they have a marketing plan to start.

Adrian Dayton: This is not always given, is not it?

Larry Bodine: Right. Far and away, most law firms not marketing plans. You could have one approach in the sense that, the management committee, but it is something that only resident in the minds and it is not written down. What I will do is to try the key elements that would go into a marketing plan to collect. A large part of it is financial data and customer information. want I see what the trend line is about company sales , they are up? If she calls me, because they usually go down. I will ask in what areas of the practices of Money Makers. that always ask a tricky question, but I will, their areas of service in terms of how much profit they generate rank. It is often that the first time anyone has for a report, like that of most of the companies I deal with demand. I’ll look over their top hundred customers and try to sort them in certain industries. The idea is to try to get a picture of the pipelines of the revenue if the revenue coming into the company. Instead of building new pipelines, is my approach has always been, we take the areas where you do a lot of money and are increasing.

Adrian Dayton: Yes, build on your basic strengths, basically. It is interesting to me said that they are sensitive in general, if you are asking them to be the most profitable areas of practice, and it is another example of how law firms are not really comfortable with the operation itself like a business. All other business will you have, spreadsheets, and tracking profitability of each sector, but firms are more tolerant to know that

Larry Bodine: It is more personalized in a law firm. Law firms are partnerships, so they really do not like in a spreadsheet, that the insurance defense practice makes less money than the shows create litigation – because it just creates a lot of hurt feelings. My approach is to be published is not necessarily to that information within the company, but said the work with management and, “You really should litigation as a marketing emphasis to focus, because that’s where you make your money.” If there is a area, where you are not making money, you have to adjust not necessarily, unless they lose money, but we will not focus only on them. This is really the essence of marketing: focus.

Measuring Return on Investment Adrian Dayton: As you can see that the companies recommend their return on investment track when it comes to money in marketing and marketing efforts? Larry Bodine: planning to measure ROI is the first step if you start a marketing initiative. Before you take it, you have to ask yourself there is no way that you know they are processed. If you can not measure, you should not do it. For example, what is measurable, can be an event where you invite a number of customers and potential customers. You’ll know what you are out of pocket costs. What do you want to do then identified for the next 90 days, all files that were generated directly or indirectly from this case and then project forward, what are the annual accounts, and you can show a return on investment.

Adrian Dayton: For years, law firms have basically just thrown the money from these marketing initiatives without looking for measurable ROI in many cases. I think with the current state of the economy, savvy companies require directors of the companies more, they demand a better return on investment.

Larry Bodine: I think that’s just smart. It is a good way to run a business, and it is a good way for a marketing director to keep his job, to be able to say that “we received the following ROI for a particular initiative.” My favorite example is at Dykema, a 400-lawyer that company’s 10 offices are primarily in the Midwest. They decided to do the marketing industry. They took four sectors, and gave himself a goal of increasing current customer files and new files and new customers. They were able to say, “We spent over a $ 160,000 and we got $ 6,000,000 in return, this was definitely worthwhile.”

Adrian Dayton: ; This is an interesting way to think about it is to say: “We focus on industries with a few specific niche industries, and then we will be able to measure, because we see exactly how many files we are in these industries .

Larry Bodine come: Exactly. To my way of thinking, it really is the most logical approach, how to look on the client list. If you find that you have a weight or a number of customers in the truck industry – it is useful not only cross-selling those customers in the trucking industry and make sure that you serve them in every way that you can. You can in Hoover or any of the other online databases and create a list of other companies within the industry. Basically, the goal of your list. You should start writing articles about the truck industry, should start the lawyers who spoke about the trucking industry, truck and they should join associations. If they are going to advertise, it should only appear in trucking industry publications. This is a truly effective approach. For lawyers it is a little illogical to look at things from the industry because they are looking at things from the practice group. I could create a list of three trucking companies, that the Company and represents their answer is, “Oh no, we insurance protection for this one, this other one corporate client, which is a client estate planning.” They are going to get me to say how this all customers of certain behaviors but that’s not how customers think. clients do not see themselves as a customer of the practice group. They see themselves as members of an industry. The idea is that you urge members of an industry as it is all going to talk among themselves, and if you do good work, they are recommended.

Adrian Dayton: It seems as if to make it the focus, it is about the cross-selling within the practice much easier.

Larry Bodine: That is correct. What customers want more than anything else is a lawyer who is familiar with the business and knows who the players are in their industry and talk the terms of the art of a particular sector. Otherwise they really have no way to judge the quality of a lawyer. You can look through a lawyer’s resume, and they have no way to tell if they are looking for a lawyer that is better than some other lawyer. The only understand what it is, if someone comes in and begins to speak the language of the industry, knows the problems of the company and the industry and knows the other players on the field.

Online Social Media Adrian Dayton: I’m curious what you think of the new technology, social media, particular. What is the influence of lawyers and the way in which they can market their services?

Larry Bodine: Savvy firms are very comprehensive social media. For example, LinkedIn has become the de facto online directory of professionals worldwide. In June 2009, some 850,000 lawyers have created profiles on LinkedIn. That’s really smart. Another example is blogging. I do not think that there are more than 3,000 or 4,000 blogs based lawyer in the country, and this is information from blawgsearch. com. It is an excellent time to start a blog. Blogs are an excellent medium to generate requests to establish and demonstrate competence and receive calls from the media.

Adrian Dayton: Sure. The other strange thing about this statistic is that lawyers usually are really phenomenal blogger. They are good at writing interesting content in a more informal way, and it is really pleasant for most lawyers who do it.

Larry Bodine: Not all of them that are comfortable with the blogging. Some will think that if I have a blog, user I must write a law review article to write. user You always have to explain that, no, just write a number and a link to somewhere else. user Set up a bunch of Google Alerts, and follow other bloggers, so you have a complete supply of material. user The typical question, as I will keep this thing going? What if I’m in the middle of a trial-and-go through six weeks, I and I do not have a post? user If it does, then you have friends with a business lawyer who can in the office all the time, or an associate who think the blog is going to make. I find that I never have any trouble finding material for my own blog, the LawMarketing Blog . In general, before I go on a business trip, I write five days worth of blog posts in advance and I can plan it so that it appears that one comes out on Monday, one from coming on Tuesday, and for all intents and purposes, it seems that I am posting every day.

Adrian Dayton: This is a great idea . You said, for lawyers, a couple of Partners in Crime are to help a few people with your blog, and it may be the blog of the three of you. A number of successful blogs are so organized.

Larry Bodine: Yes. The other thing is that the lawyers should be an area that fascinates her pick. For example, I went to a very conservative law firm and spoke with one of the partners, he a new blog will start, said. I thought it would be something to Article nine of the UCC, and he showed me fight the term for a blog about Mixed Martial Arts – Cage. When I saw it I thought: This is brilliant, this is concentrated, it is narrow. It’s Entertainment Law, in essence. It is about all kinds of issues and cases to report, and it was obviously something that this otherwise mild-mannered guy had a white shirt and red tie, just a real deep and abiding interest in. He was not worried that he would have enough material for them.

Adrian Dayton: Think about how big this is. This lawyer, to the otherwise not be possible expansion of its network, has suddenly this creative fun Law Blog on Mixed Martial Arts, and he will explode its zone of influence to other like-minded people who can not or eventually to hire him. ; Larry Bodine: The thing you do is that you are putting yourself at the hub of the spokes in a wheel you want to put in the middle so that when you give an opinion on a subject such as mixed martial arts say – because it broadcasters, venues, promoters, fighters and all types of providers, how does cage builders. It’s like any other entertainment industry or entertainment business. you all have the same problems . It’s just that kind of conversation that he is picked up differently. This is what you need to do on a blog, is to pick out something that is unique, a niche not to death was blogged. I warned him that he would to get calls from reporters, not just the fact that he was picked up from a conservative company, and mixed martial arts as its theme. Suppose that every reporter has an article about Mixed Martial Arts they go to a Google search or Google blog search to be done and they go to find in his blog, and call him. He will be the de facto expert in the field. < p> Adrian Dayton: Most companies do not really have a general strategy when it comes to marketing and social media goes online. I’m curious what kind of recommendations would you make large or medium-sized enterprises to dip their toe in the water and begin participating with social media?

precautions Larry Bodine: to have to some guidelines and licensing requirements to develop that are not reading the blog a client relationship are. The bloggers have to know that they are not legal advice, but they can express to the latest news and opinions. I have a number of marketers that their most recent assignment was with a policy of social media said spoken. you have all this independent thinking lawyers be writing reviews and sometimes the owners want to make clear that this individual is on his own and not on behalf of a company. In other cases, it is like, “No, this is a solid blog, and we all want to connect to the company to the blog. “

Adrian Dayton: It seems like the guys do not understand the head of these companies really, social media, they do not understand blogging. What they think is that we have to create a list , do-not-do all these things, instead of saying, “Hey, let’s find out, to build a strategy, the power of these tools in a manner in our practice, harness, and then we will make sure we are safe, as well, we ensure that we not stepped on any toes or crossing any lines. “

Larry Bodine: Right. My view is: Let us identify the risk and to prevent against the disadvantage, and then when it happens to be one on the head , which is great. Whatever happens, we do not want to be sued, we do not want to violate an ethics rule, and we do not want to create some negative publicity. Lawyers are trained to see the dangers and with something new, there is always some risk that something could go wrong.

Twitter Adrian Dayton: gear changes a little because we know a lot of press and Got your well-being for your article “Twitter is not effective for Law Firm Marketing,” and in the past few weeks there was been talking a lot about it. I’m curious if you have softened in the course.

Larry Bodine: Twitter definitely has a role in society, and you can certainly see that by the protests in Tehran in the summer of 2009. I think , Twitter is a great place if you are to organize a protest. If you get too, but in the world of law firm marketing, I noticed that there is a high noise ratio on Twitter signal. In the nine months that I have a Twitter account, I have somehow managed 800 + followers, which is to collect not much, but I did it without any effort at all. Then I started to see some damning statistics on Twitter. Only one in ten people who are on Twitter actually 90 percent of the contributions. Even something like 90 percent of users are all dead accounts.

Adrian Dayton: Larry think about a university class. How many students actually raise your hand and comment, does not it? Or even if you presenting in seminars. What proportion of participating, even if you have a small group? you have a lot of passive viewers, and I do not think that different than what’s happening in the real world is that? Larry Bodine: True. Except that for 60 percent of Twitter users after they drop it for a month and no longer does so, it would be as if you joined a club, and then went back to the second session and 60 percent of the people were gone.

Adrian Dayton: , I think, to look the other way, to ensure that when you speak to a group of hundred people and 60 percent sign up for your next seminar, which is a pretty good close vote, right? ;

Larry Bodine: You have to weigh up to do. Of all the social media that are out there, you’ll have a much higher return on investment with blogs, with an account or LinkedIn accession Legal OnRamp – rather than spending time with Twitter. The people in the legal profession are not quickly or unproven brand adoption of a new online social media. I would have to say the truth, if I go and I ask law firms, people, how many lawyers a friend account and have all the young people raise their hands. All older people who ask the company to run: “What is LinkedIn?”

Adrian Dayton: I get what you’re getting at. Perhaps Twitter is about five steps ahead if these lawyers now need to go.

Larry Bodine: Yes.

Adrian Dayton: < ; / strong> I see this point, and that is well taken.

Larry Bodine: When I advise a company and it does not have a blog that is where I recommend that the company should begin. Then I look at the lawyers on LinkedIn and see how many of them have profiles and they say: “They all have set a profile until tomorrow, because I’ll send you an invitation to me in connection to bin. “Once you are on LinkedIn, you can not stop with a profile. Just like a car in the garage, there is no good if he just sits there, you have to go somewhere with him. You have a group in a discussion participate, ask questions and answer and make something of it to join. This is the point where I see the profession is just now. Something like Twitter – I do not think the profession is ready for them. < p> A look into the future Adrian Dayton: This is your last word on this is, and I think we will see what will happen . As if Twitter is about four or five years, who knows, I want to ask you: What is your forecast for the next ten years? What is the legal marketplace will, as in ten years?

Larry Bodine: I think we have the decline of the high leverage pyramid built office, where two or three employees per partner have – have seen only because customers want a partner, they don ‘t want an associate. The companies seem to do a lot better are those that are predominantly partner. They are a couple of employees who volunteer to go with a full expectation that, in order to make partner are brought . The other thing I think you’ll see, is law firms Wise Up and not wrap has only a single industry like all the Wall Street law firms fueled by financial services. In financial services, all of a sudden we saw big layoffs on Wall Street. Or insurance defense – as soon as the insurance to customers starting prices get pushed down and it will be a nonprofitable practice. It makes no sense to be an industry, because then you wrap your inexorable fate attached that industry. I also think we will see many more virtual law firms.

Adrian Dayton: that a prediction that we hear here before it, and I think this is true.

Larry Bodine: My favorite example is a virtual company is the XDL law firm that patent litigation does, and it consists primarily over the Internet. It is a collection of litigators in the country in various law firms. Do you litigate an issue in Texas or in Boston or in Richmond, Virginia, they are a lawyer there with a lot of experience, the negotiation can handle the matter. You lawyers just decided to to market together as a virtual law firm.

Adrian Dayton: I think these are some very insightful predictions. It was great to you today on the program, Larry, and we hope really, we can have again.

Larry Bodine: Thank you very much, I appreciate the invitation. It was a pleasure for me to talk to you.